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 USA Cycling sucks
Author: k2_grassroots 
Date:   11-24-08 08:52

WTF? No Tour de Georgia and so the promoter of Battenkill works his bum off for two months to get in a UCI/USA Cycling request to fill in the gap and USA Cycling shoots him down? Even after the UCI said it would be okay if it was submitted late? Yeah, the dude and the USA Cycling have had their go arounds, but so have I with trying to promote races with these high and mighty pricks.

"Lee also rejected the UCI’s premises that allowing a late application could help to elevate the sport’s standing in the United States. “In terms of the public eye, I don’t think whether the Tour of the Battenkill is on the international calendar makes or breaks cycling in North America,” he said."

And this quote sums up why cycling in the USA, when it comes to racing, sucks. Try to promote more races and get shot down. Figures.

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: refreshmentjones 
Date:   11-24-08 08:57

i wager that nobody refutes this claim.

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 Re: USA Cycling are a bunch of dicks...
Author: bobswire 
Date:   11-24-08 09:10

It is a power game and to hell with cycling and cycling fans, Quote:
Lee said Drake’s failure to follow the UCI’s instructions to work through the national federation is also at issue.

“The UCI response back to Mr. Drake, as far as them considering an application was applicable, however on two occasions they told him he needed to work through proper channels, which he did not do,” Lee said. ( In other words kiss to Mr.Lees ass).

Lee also rejected the UCI’s premises that allowing a late application could help to elevate the sport’s standing in the United States. “In terms of the public eye, I don’t think whether the Tour of the Battenkill is on the international calendar makes or breaks cycling in North America,” he said.


http://www.velonews.com/article/85363/promoter-federation-at-loggerheads-over-georgia-substitute

It's jerks like him that are ruining cycling in North America.







Post Edited (11-24-08 09:50)

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 Re: USA Cycling are a bunch of dicks...
Author: saul 
Date:   11-24-08 09:26

That's why I will never apply for a license for USA CYCLING, what a bunch of pricks.

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 devil's advocate
Author: jacques_anquetil 
Date:   11-24-08 09:30

i dunno, if the guy's application is ridiculously late, does a run-around of the federation, and misses some pretty key features of the race, the rejection might be legitimate.
Quote:

On Thursday, Nov. 20, Justin Rogers, USA Cycling National Events Director wrote Drake to inform him that the application had been turned down. In a lengthy letter, Rogers cites three reasons for the dismissal, including the late application, disrespect for the federation’s process, and a lack of detail about the proposed course in the application.

that said USA cycling does need to be somewhat flexible too given that the race is filling in a hole.

disclaimer: as a canadian i have no opinion whatsoever whether USA Cycling sucks or not.


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 Re: USA devils in the reasoning
Author: bobswire 
Date:   11-24-08 09:47

Lets go through their reasoning:
#1 Late application : answer False. UCI had granted an exception.
#2 Disrespect for the federation’s process, This is the Kiss my ass excuse.
#3 Lack of detail about the proposed course in the application. False:
Drake has been working overtime with USA cycling and invested two months into the process without USA cycling alerting him that an application submitted past deadline would not be considered.







Post Edited (11-24-08 09:49)

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: Campy Guy 
Date:   11-24-08 12:40

and they wonder why cycling doesn't get the coverage, respect or growth they want.......

Campagnolo Spoken Here

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: k2_grassroots 
Date:   11-24-08 13:32

That is my point about filling the whole. Why not fill it and let the guys race and public get what they want?

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 Re: devil's advocate
Author: Master50 
Date:   11-24-08 14:12

1st thing. The race has a USCF sanction so it will run as it has in the past. The organizer wants a Sanction upgrade to motivate pro teams to come. So the organizer is told to do that, they have to apply to the USCF which they ignore. The UCI can make exceptions which is what they said. They did not guarantee an exception since they did not have an approved sanction application from the USCF.
The organizer garners some publicity declaring the USCF as being an obstacle to them getting a UCI sanction but they did not follow protocol and instead are now trying to embarrass the USCF into sending in the Sanction application.
Anyone here know what has to be done for a UCI sanction? K2 You must know since you clearly are saying the USCF doesn't. What would the organizer lose if they got a UCI sanction?
Experience tells me that organizers that look to circumvent a process are often deficient in their basic organization requirements.
I often get to races where an organizer works to a specific level and never goes higher. When faced with higher costs for the higher sanction level often don't even try to meet the higher standard instead saying I ran this event for 20 years doing this and never had a problem but now want a higher profile without meeting the higher standard.
Bottom line is there are very few category racers going to benefit and maybe even lose an opportunity to race if this event got its UCI sanction and then implemented it according to the established standard.
Maybe the real Person that sucks here is the organizer and you fro just accepting a news story as a balance reporting of all the salient points. For all you know the reporter is a member of the organization or sponsor of the event.
BTW the USCF will continue to suck as long as the only help and participation they get from their membership is how poor they are doing. Oh of course some here hold their non-participation as a badge of honor and a symbol of their opposition to the USCF policies and practice.
If you are not part of the solution then you are the problem.

BTW My federation sucks too. ;-) I am an advocate and licenced member.



Post Edited (11-24-08 18:23)

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: jm 
Date:   11-24-08 14:26

Yes, USAC sucks.

-He had a sweet $6K rig because he's a trust fund kid, and I had a piece of crap because I'm not.-
--From the movie 'Freedom Riders'--

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 Re: devil's advocate ...
Author: bobswire 
Date:   11-24-08 15:26

Master 50 By your own standard your assumption is no more valid than K2's by accepting USCF reasoning without question and since you've had a negative experience with an organizer you paint them all with the same brush.

Without the organizers there wouldn't be a need for USCF or a place for you to compete.
In this case the TdG was opting out it was a chance for someone to fill the gap for pros to ride and for us fans to enjoy. What's the matter with that again? rules!?!







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 Bobswire!!! due respect, please!
Author: jacques_anquetil 
Date:   11-24-08 15:46

Master 50 is a world-class, experienced UCI official from Canada. he knows his stuff. so stop slagging his post and read what he said again. he is a personal friend of mine and i happen to know his take on these matters is on the up-and-up, fair and balanced. he is one who can appreciate the nuanced perspective of the argument. unlike some here who simply see knee-jerk reaction in black and white. organizer=good, USA Cycling=bad.

again, it is quite possible that the race organizer is a complete d!ckhead, and/or USA Cycling are being complete d!ckheads, or a true combination of both.

as before, i don't live in the US and have no direct experience with the cycling organization or of the battenkill organizer but am just trying to read what is really going on between the lines of this press release.


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Post Edited (11-24-08 15:48)

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 Re: devil's advocate
Author: Stevefroth 
Date:   11-24-08 16:28

>>"Maybe the real Person that sucks here is the organizer and you fro just accepting a news story as a balance reporting of all the salient points. For all you know the reporter is a member of the organization or sponsor of the event."

He's a reporter. Give us some credit.

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: k2_grassroots 
Date:   11-24-08 16:38

I have worked through both and have put on UCI cross races here in Reno. It is a pain in the arse, but I do it anyways or used too until it got to the point that no matter what we did, it was not good enough or timely enough. I am not innocent.

My point with this particular race is that the UCI was willing to waive the deadline issue and USA Cycling wasn't. USA Cycling cries because he asked the UCI first if they would be willing to waive it, and they were. So why would USA Cycling say no?

I agree with the reporting, but, Velonews is all we have to go by..................

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 Re: Bobswire!!! due respect, please!
Author: bobswire 
Date:   11-24-08 17:24

Where did I disrespect him? I thought my response was valid. Please read again.







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 Re: Bobswire!!! due respect, please!
Author: Master50 
Date:   11-24-08 18:47

J thanks for the defence. I appreciate the good words. I don't take offence to Bobs retort and I have learned to try and use the thickened part of my butt when someone kicks it.
I recognize the frustration of people in dealing with Federations. I am sure that there are lots of people say the same thing in Italian or French about theirs.
I have been working races as an official for 22 years or somewhere around 600 racing days as an official plus courses, preparations, in support of officiating. I raced for about 10 years and barely managed a cat 4 career.
I know some people that work at USA Cycling and I don't believe they wouldn't support a race that deserves and is ready for the upgrade but it is in the USCF's interest to be sure the organizer is prepared to host a UCI event and is not just trying to get an undeserved leg up because there is a date open. I don't have any any inside knowledge or more facts and I take my cues from the cycling press like most on this forum. There is always a position on both sides of a story. Frankly as a guess, I'd say if the USCF was concerned about the readiness of the organizer it is probably a lot wiser that they keep it to themselves and refuse the sanction application based on a legitimate rule violation and not have to fight with the organizer in court.
K2 I hear that a lot from CX organizers.

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: easyrider 
Date:   11-24-08 19:20

Are we talking about the same USA Cycling as the one that was sued for sending the wrong mountain biker to the Olympics and has lost the case and been ordered to pay the injured party $319,000?

That USA Cycling?

Yeah...I would say that it would be fair to use the words "sucks" in regard to such an organization.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20081107-1140-oly-cyc-mountainbike-suit.html

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: Master50 
Date:   11-24-08 20:54

Hey easy
since I seem to have taken up the cause of defending your federation, Yup that one. The selection of riders is probably the most litigious tasks any federation performs. Regardless of the outcomes of this years Worlds and Olympic teams it seems that I agreed with mine this year in their road teams selections and even the MTB selections for Olympics. In fact it is the first time I agreed with a road selection in 22 years. Don't get me started on track selection, however.
Until the talent pool is deep enough and there are alternates for every position and circumstance there is no easy solution. The MTB rider in question won a law suit at a second guess. She did not race and there is no right choice. I recognize the selection is supposed to be difinable and she convince a court that this was at variance but was the federation wrong in their choice? That is a question that cannot be answered. It is impossible to prove an alternate reality since it would invalidate the current reality. She did not go, the chosen rider did not win gold. what else can you prove happened as a result of the selection? You can't prove anything. You can persuade a jury that you did not earn $319,000 because you did not win. But of course you did not win cause you were not there. The failure of one argument does not prove the other.

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 History
Author: ChuckD 
Date:   11-24-08 21:25

(First post here, I'm a Cat. 2 has-been enjoying life without the suffering...mostly)

There's a history alluded to, but not elucidated on, in this article. I'd like to offer up "the rest of the story".

Not long after Dieter earned his position with USAC he was placed in a position where he had to deny a race permit for a major race (the NYS 'cross Champs) due to substandard procedures, conditions that still hadn't been rectified the Tuesday before the race. To preserve the integrity of the sport, and fulfill his duties as Regional Coordinator, he awarded the permit to someone who'd proven to be successful in the past.

Based on loud protestations by Promoter A, USAC summoned up their so-called spine and told Dieter he had to reverse his decision. Not an official announcement from them, but an order to Dieter to reverse. Believing his decision to be the proper one, he stood firm, and the rest is history. Thanks for the support USAC!

So, that Dieter went straight to UCI this time (not an improper move since he was seeking a UCI sanction) shouldn't be surprising. It's Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. But in this case Charlie's less of a dupe. Dieter's an opportunist in the best sense of the word, and he's trying to seize an opportunity...legitimately.

The Tour of the Battenkill needs no defense as a UCI candidate.

USAC could use a good defense of their "Mission Statement" (and I'd rethink the order of these two concepts):

"The mission of USA Cycling is to achieve sustained success in international cycling competition and to grow competitive cycling in America"
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=172


Anyway, I just wanted to make sure the picture painted here is complete.

ChuckD

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 Re: History
Author: jacques_anquetil 
Date:   11-25-08 09:39

thanks chuck, good post for your first!

also, perhaps i owe bobswire an apology for the slight overreaction. good thing this thread is getting buried and maybe nobody will see that... my butt ain't as thick as Master50's.


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 Re: History
Author: battenkill 
Date:   11-25-08 10:44

Hi Folks,

A friend mentioned that there was some discussion here regarding the recent VN article. At the risk of creating a protracted online discussion, I though I would chime in to clarify some things.

First and foremost - USA Cycling is a good organization that includes first-rate people. I deal with USA Cycling Officials and Membership Personnel on a daily basis, and I have found them to be extremely professional and helpful toward improving the sport. Also, the overall structure of the organization is sound and is constructed in a way to promote growth. I do, however, from time to time have very sharp disagreements over the operation of the organization. The present one carried over into the public arena, unfortunately.

Second - ChuckD has it right and this is a fairly accurate account of what happened a year ago with regard to my termination as Regional Coordinator, though with one exception - it was not the race permit that was denied (that would have been beyond my responsibilities), but simply the State Championship status for the event. The race still occurred as scheduled. I took that position to promote the sport and to have a positive impact on the local and regional racing. It may sound melodramtic, but I actually believe that cycling can have very positive impacts (economic and otherwise) on communities & individuals; it occupies a very powerful demographic and by necessity requires the critical input from the public and local, state, and regional community leaders. Races and race promoters who acknowledge this are usually very successful. Yes, I actually believe this. No, I am not interested in anyone else's job.

Third - The current issue with the Tour of the Battenkill and its proposed UCI status is equally as unfortunate. Since the race would be a UCI-sanctioned event on their calendar, I approached the UCI in early October, directly, after I learned TdG was under threat of cancellation to inquire if they would accept a late application. They indicated that they would indeed and referred me to USA Cycling to begin the process, whom I also contacted at virtually the same time. TdG was cancelled on Friday, 11/14 and I sent my application in to USA Cycling on Monday of last week, 11/17. While not everything that has been stated publicly is completely accurate, I acknowledge that organizations like USA Cycling include various departments and interests and there are times when not everything is communicated well or completely. I am guilty of that at times as well within the various organizations with which I am associated, including USA Cycling. Nevertheless, I am currently awaiting an official response from both the UCI and USA Cycling regarding my appeal. In any case, I am confident that the event will be at least as successful as it has been these last few years, hopefully now with the addition of a UCI Pro Men's race on Sunday.

That's enough typing for one day.

Thanks,

Dieter

Dieter Drake
General Manager & CEO
Anthem Sports

The Tour of the Battenkill
April 18-19, 2009
Cambridge, NY
www.tourofthebattenkill.com



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 Re: History
Author: Master50 
Date:   11-25-08 14:33

I think this thread went well after a bit of raving at the outset. Thanks for more of the backstory.
K2 got off pretty lightly I think. I have come to realize you have a bit of an axe to grind with US Cycling perhaps related to your experiences with the Vegas Cross?

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 Re: USA Cycling sucks
Author: GDC 
Date:   11-25-08 15:07

As someone who has dealt with USAC, many have issues with there methods or application of rules. If you are not personally in their favor (or just a plain brown-noser) it is a long and hard road to get things done. They hold the power, so your only recourse is the courts.

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